Introduction to the translation

Below we provide translations of a few depositions – a tiny selection out of over 5000 – which survive from the interrogations of two Dominican inquisitors in one manuscript in Toulouse. We shall go on, translating more and adding them!

This Toulouse manuscript is in the municipal library in Toulouse, ms 609. It is a copy made around 1260 of inquisition registers - no longer surviving – mainly from 1245-6.

From one point of view, access to this manuscript is easy. An exhaustive and brilliant study of the manuscript itself and the inquisitions in it was published in 1959, Yves Dossat’s Les crises de l'inquisition toulousaine au XIIIe siècle (1233-1273) (Bordeaux). Read the last chapter of Walter Wakefield’s Heresy, Crusade and Inquisition in Southern France, 1100-1250 (London, 1974). It is entitled ‘The Inquisition Resumes’ and you find yourself reading something where erudition is worn very lightly, the weight of a feather-duster – the erudition here being that of someone who knew Toulouse 509 inside out and had read it many times.

But reading it has problems some of the time. When the leaves have not been damaged, you see script that is clear and easy. But this is a paper manuscript, and when accessed through black and white photostats some parts look like blotting-paper – as though dampness has made ink spread. The library provides an on-line digital colour image, and on this the ‘blotting-paper’ sections look at first as though they are readable [at http://www.bibliotheque.toulouse.fr/page_bib_num.html] But the small-number of dots per square centimetre produces an image of low resolution, in which the shapes of letters approach discernibility, but do not get there: frustrating!

Two typescript transcripts exist. A photocopy of a typed transcript made at Columbia University, lacking folios 200v-225r, is located in Columbia University Library, Butler Collection, BX4890. B47 1255g; its short title is ‘Interrogatoires subis par des hérétiques albigeois’. The quality is uneven. The late Jean Duvernoy produced a typed transcript which is available in three files on-line at http://jean.duvernoy.free.fr/text/listetexte.htm. The quality is again very uneven. We made the translation of the longest text below – fols. 200v-2-1r – looking at both a photostat (the ms at this point is free of problems) and Duvernoy’s transcript. This is mainly very good, but at some points it simply skips passages.

So – reading the text can be a bit of a nightmare. But it’s worth it, because the contents are so interesting.

The two Dominican inquisitors were Bernard of Caux and John of St Pierre. They started work in Toulouse, 1 May 1245, in an enquiry designed to cover the diocese of Toulouse, which went on until 1 August 1246. Summonses were read out in parishes, and people trudged along or rode to Toulouse to be questioned in St Sernin. Their depositions are organised by and listed under parishes in the manuscript. It begins with Mas-Saintes-Puelles, and you can read an outstanding study mainly based on this preliminary section, Walter Wakefield’s ‘Heretics and Inquisitors: the case of Le Mas-Saintes-Puelles’, Catholic Historical Review 69 (1983), 209-226.

The questioning went along the lines of a formula, but deponents said a lot of things which were not pre-determined by the questions: and much that is extraordinarily vivid comes through.

The Translation

[On the reverse of the front end-paper, in a script which is contemporary to the mabnuscript]

Confessions from the 5th book of Brother Bernard of Caux’s <inquisitions in> the Lauragais, transcribed in this book up to folio 158.

Item, from the said folio thereafter <transcribed> from the said Brother Bernard’s 4th book.

/ 1r / From Mas-Stes-Puelles ….

/ 3v / [One short deposition dated ‘tenth calends of July [22 June 1245]’ is followed by two negative depositions, and then: ]

Item, on the year and day as above, Peter Bernard Prosat, sworn in as a witness, said that he saw Peter Amiel and Pons Germani, heretics, living openly at Mas-Stes-Puelles.

And this was thirty-five years ago and more.

He never otherwise saw heretics, nor believe, nor adore, nor give or send anything, nor escort, nor hear their preaching.

Item, he said that while the same witness was at Mas in the workshop of Peter Gauta, at the same time as some other men from Mas, Bernard of Quiriès, deliberately urinated on the head of the same witness – who is an acolyte - <doing this>, the same witness is convinced, to disparage and insult the whole Catholic Church.

And this was twenty-six years ago.

Witnesses to this thing are Bernard Amiel, and Arnold Donat, and William Lapassa, Anhe and Bernard Lapassa, and Raymond d’En Dolz, and many others.

And this was twenty-nine years ago.

And he abjured heresy, and took an oath etc.

Witnesses: written below.

4r…

Item, on the year and day as above, Bernard Lapassa, sworn in as a witness, said the same that Peter Bernard Prosat said about Bernard <of> Quiriès and the urination on Peter Raymond Prosat’s head. But he does not remember about the bystanders who were there, whom the said Peter named.

About the place, he said the same as Peter.

About the time: it was twenty-five years ago.

Witnesses: the aforesaid.

Item, on the year and day as above, Arnold of Na Comdors, sworn in as a witness, said that he never saw heretics except as prisoners, nor did he believe in them, nor did he adore them, nor did he give or send them anything, nor did he hear their preaching.

14v Item, in the year as above, on the 14th calends of June [19 May 1245], Alazaiz, the wife of Ysarn Matfre of Camo [Cambou?], sworn in as a witness, said that she saw at Laurac Alazaizia of Cuq, heretic, the aunt of the same witness. But she did not adore her, nor did she see her adored. And this was sixty years ago or thereabouts.

Item, she said she saw two heretics in her house at Mas, whom Arnold Godalh escorted there. And the said heretics ate there, and the said Arnold Godalh brought them [stuff] to eat. And she saw there the said Arnold Godalh and his wife, but she saw no-one else there, nor did she adore them nor see them being adored. And this was ten years ago or thereabouts.

She did not otherwise see heretics, nor believed, nor adored, nor gave or sent anything, nor heard their preaching. And she swore to abide etc [= by the commands of the inquisitors], and she abjured heresy.

Item, on the year as above, the third ides of June [11 June 1245], Na Fauressa, wife of William, Lord of Mas, sworn in as a witness, said that after she made her confession to Brother Ferrier she did not see heretics. She said, however, that before the aforesaid confession she saw heretics living openly in the land. And this was thirty-five years ago or thereabouts.

Item, she said that when the same witness was ill with a big illness – such that she had lost the power of speech – she was carried into the houses of the heretics and hereticated there. But she had been able neither to see nor hear. But when she recovered the power of speech, she was carried to her own house. And this was thirty years ago or thereabouts.

Item, she saw in the house of Peter Faure, who was later made a heretic, Peter Bolbena and his companion, heretics. And she saw there with them Na Meta, Marquesia of Roquefort, and Geralda, wife of William of Roquefort. And all of them, and the same witness, adored the said heretics there, except the said Geralda – about whom she does not recall if she adored. And this was twenty years ago or thereabouts.

Item, she saw in the house of William of Canast, Bertrand Martin and his companion, heretics, and she saw there with them the said William of Canast, and the mother of the same William, and Na Meta, and Peter Bernard lo Mazeler. And the same witness adored the said heretics there / 15r / and saw others adore. And this was fifteen years ago or thereabouts.

Item she saw at Laurac, in the same witness’s own and her husband’s house, which they rented from Pel of Sama, Raymond Bernard and his companion, heretics. And she saw there with them Jordan, the same witness’s son, who escorted the said heretics there, Bernard Garsias, and John of N’Arnalda, and Raymunda of Quiriès, and W illiam of Mas, the same witness’s son. And the same witness adored the said heretics there, and saw others adore, apart from the just mentioned Raymunda of Quiriès and William of Mas. And it was five years ago or thereabouts.

Otherwise she did not see heretics, that she recalls.

117r From Maurens by Cambon

117v… On the year and day as above [13 December 1245], Na Pagana, wife of William Torner, sworn in as a witness said that on some land which is called Le Bosc Donat she saw two men she did not know. And she asked them what sort of men they were and they replied that they were friends of God. And then she asked them to tell her which she had lost her children. And then those men told her that all her children were devils. And afterwards the same witness was unwilling to listen to them. And she saw there Richarda Romanesca. But the same witness did not adore them, nor did she see them adored.

This was twenty years ago or thereabouts.

Item, she said she saw two heretics, whom she did not know, in the house of Pons of Messal at Maurens. And she saw there William of Messal, Arnold of Messal, Bernard of Garrigue the elder, and Peter Garrigue, who later was burnt, and Hysarn of Le Faget, and Thomasa, daughter of Pons of Messal. But she did not adore, nor saw them adored.

And this was 14 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, she said that the same witness sold 6 sesters of wine to Bernard of Messal. And afterwards she heard it said that the aforesaid Bernard of Messal bought the said wine for the benefit of the heretics, and she believes this for sure.

And this was four years ago or thereabouts.

She never believed the aforesaid heretics were good men, not did she ever adore them, nor did she give nor send anything, nor did she hear their preaching.

She abjured heresy and swore, etc.

Witnesses: the aforesaid.

130r From Avignonet

… Item, on the aforesaid year and day [5 July 1245] Raymond Bru, sworn in as a witness, said that urged on by William Ademar he went to the heretics in the house where the same heretics were living / 130v / - which belonged to Peter Ademar Cauts – for the sake of disputing with them [causa disputandi cum eis]. And he saw there Bofilh and his companion, heretics, and two female heretics, and he sought from them their faith. And he saw there with them the said William Ademar, <and> William of Cailhavel. But neither the same witness nor the others adored the said heretics there.

And this w as 35 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, on another occasion he saw the said heretics there, and he disputed with them about the law of Moses. And he saw there the said William Ademar, who encouraged the side of the heretics, and William of Cailhavel, and Borga. But neither he nor the others adored the said heretics there.

And this was at the same time.

Item, on another occasion he saw the said heretics there, and he disputed with them about the resurrection. And he saw there with them the said William Ademar, and William Raymond A[?]an, who adored the said heretics there. And it seems that there were there Ermengart, the wife of Raymond Benedict, and Arnold of en Marti - however, he does not remember well. The same speaker, however, did not adore.

And it as at the same time.

Item, he said that when he went one day to visit William of Borgafre, the same witness’s brother-in-law, who was suffering in his leg, he found in the same William’s house Arnold Faure and his companion, heretics. And the said Arnold Faure, heretic, had the said William of Borgafre in his care. And the same witness had bad words with them, such that the said heretics left during the night. And he saw in the said house with the said heretics Peter Pis, and Pons of Sorèze, and Ermengart, the same witness’s wife, and Willelma, the wife of en Boscenac, and Arnold Baudric. But neither he the witness nor the others adored the said heretics there. He also said that N’Adz Ademar, and Arnold Baudrix, and Pons of Birac, and Peter Esuieu, and Peter of Bovila got the said heretics out of the said house during the night.

And this was 11 years ago or thereabouts.

And he confessed to Brother Ferrier, and afterwards he did not see heretics.

He did not otherwise see heretics, nor did he believe they were good men, nor that they had a good faith, or troth-tellers, or friends of God.

And he heard heretics saying that God had not made visible things, and that baptism of water is worth nothing, and that the consecrated host is not the body of Christ, and that there is not salvation in marriage, and that the dead will not rise. But the same witness never believed the aforesaid errors – rather, in fact, he disputed with the heretics.

Item, he said that Roger Hysarn asked the same witness to go with him a little, and he escorted the same to the house of Peter Caburs. And he found there Bofilh and his companion, heretics. But he did not adore, or see <them> adored.

And this was 20 years ago or thereabouts.

He also said vthat Stephen of Villeneuve, Stphen Rocas, Tholsan of La Salle, Pons Qudeira and Peter, his brother, Peter Brus, cobbler, Pons Faure of Lagarde, William Dauzet [or d’Auzet], Pons Rangi, Raymond Segaut <and> Berter are believers. And all the aforesaid disputed with the same witness, and with Stephen of Boscenac, and with William Peter, the Chaplain.

And the said Chaplain and Stephen of Boscenac said the same [inquisitor’s note?].

And he abjured heresy and swore etc.

Witnesses: the Abbot of St-Papoul; Arnold, Prior of St-Sernin; William Peter, Chaplain of St Germer; and Brother Bernard, Inquisitor.

149v From Fanjeaux

164r … AD 1248, on the 6th day before the ides of March [10 March], William Garsias, sworn in as a witness, said that he saw male heretics and female heretics living openly in their own houses at Fanjeaux. But at that time the same witness did not adore them, but he certainly saw many others adore them, many times. And this was 20 years ago and more.

…

Item, in the house of Bernard Hugon of Festes [dpt. Aude], he saw John Cambiaire and his companion, heretics. And he saw there with them the said Bernard Hugon, master of the house, and Raymond Viguier of Orsans [dpt. Aude], knights, and William Peter Bocca of Orsans, and N’Auriol, and Novel, and Lady Veziada, wife of the said Bernard Hugon, and Lady Heliz, wife of William Faure, and Lady Auda, wife of William Arnold Jubileu, and many from the town. And then the said heretics did the apparelhamentum. And then great laughter rose up among the same witness and some of the others because of the fall and crashing down collapse of some Lady who – when she came to do her pardons and genuflections in front of the heretics – fell over there. And for this reason the same witness left the house, with some others, because they could not stop themselves laughing. And for the same reason he did not adore, nor see [others] adoring. But he certainly believes all the others who remained in the said house adored the said heretics. And this was around the said time [= 12 years before or thereabouts] or earlier.

174r From St-Germier of the Lauragais …

175r In the year as above , on the 5th day before the nones of July [3 July 1245], Peter of Puycalvel, sworn in as a witness said that he saw at St-Germer Gerard of Gourdon and many other male heretics and female heretics living openly in their houses. And at the time the same witness was a boy, not yet five years old. And the said heretics showed the same witness how to adore them – genuflecting three times, saying ‘Bless’ – and the same witness did <it> as they said.

And this w as 35 years ago.

Item, he said that he often saw male heretics and female heretics living openly at St-Germer and in many other places in the land, and he often adored and saw <them> adored.

And the whole of this was before the Peace [= 1229].

Item, he said that one day in summertime, when the same witness was going to cut his corn, he found Bernard Gaufre and his companion, heretics – the same witness not knowing <this> [‘not knowing’: probably, not knowing that they were heretics; possibly, not knowing in advance that he would meet them]. And the same heretics asked the witness to let them cut there and lend assistance to the same witness. And the same witness, somewhat reluctant, le t them cut. And in the evening the same witness gave the said heretics 7 pence as payment. And throughout the day he saw no-one in the field with the said heretics. And he did not adore, or see <them> adored.

And this was 4 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he said that when Lady Berengaria, sister of Gailhard of Ségreville was living at St-Germer, one day she asked the same witness to accompany her as far as Ségreville, which the same witness did, and he left her at the entrance to the town. And afterwards the same witness waited for the same heretic, and on her return he adored her.

And this was 25 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he said that he did not believe the aforesaid heretics were good men, or friends of God, or truth-tellers, nor that they had good faith, nor did he believe there was salvation in them.

Item, he said that he certainly heard the heretics saying errors: about visible things, that God had not made them; about baptism and marriage, that they are worth nothing for salvation; about the consecrated host, that it was not the body of Christ. But he himself never believed the aforesaid errors.

199v From Lanta

200v AD 1245, 16 days before the calends of August [17 July], Raymond Ademar of Lanta, knight, sworn in as a witness, said that in the house of the Roquevilles at Toulouse he saw Guilabert of Castres, and Bernard of Lamothe, and William of Le Soulier, heretics. And he saw there Raymond Unaut of Lanta and Raymond Unaut, son of the late G. Unaut, kin, and Estolot of Roqueville, and Three Measures, and Bernard and Raymond of Roqueville, brothers, and Galhard of Ségreville, Arnold Saquet, William of Deyme, and many others he does not recall. And the same witness and all the others adored the said heretics there, genuflecting and saying, ‘Bless, Good Men, and pray to God on or behalf’. And all heard their preaching. And the said heretics made peace between the aforesaid Raymond Unaut and Raymond Unaut, kin, who held each other in hatred.

And this was 15 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, in the house of Alaman of Roaix he saw Bernard of Lamothe, and William of Le Soulier, heretics. And he saw there the said Alaman, and Lombarda, the said Alaman’s wife, Galhard of Ségreville, and Raymond Unaut the younger, William of Deyme, Pons Saquet, and Gensr, the wife of the said Pons, and many others he does not recall. And the same witness and all the others adored the said heretics there, and heard their preaching.

And it was at the same time.

Item, he said that he saw in the house of Pons Saquet Bernard of Lamothe and his companion, heretics. And he saw there with them Raymond Unaut the younger, Pons Saquet and Genser, his wife, and Bernard William of Varennes, and Gualhard of Ségreville, and many others he does not recall. And the same witness and all the others adored the said heretics there, and heard their preaching.

And it was at the same time.

Item, he said that in the house of Guilabert Bosquet, knight, at Toulouse, he saw Arnalda of Lamothe and her companion, heretics, and Bernard of Lamothe and his companion, heretics. And he saw there with them there the same Guilabert, and Guillelma, the said Guilabert’s wife, and Pons Saquet and Genser, his wife, and Aicelina and Gentils, the same witness’s wife, daughters of the said Guilabert, and many others he does not recall. And the same witness and all the others adored the said heretics there, and heard their preaching.

And it was around the aforesaid time.

Item, he said that in the cowshed of Pons Saquet by Lanta he saw Bernard Bonafos and his companion, heretics. And he saw there with them the same Pons and Genser, the wife of the said Pons, and Raymond Unaut the younger, and Galharda [female gender probably wrong – see Galhard above] of Ségreville, William of Deyme, and many others he does not recall. And the same witness and all the others adored the said heretics there, and heard their preaching. And they ate apples there with the said heretics, and they brought wine <there>.

And this was at the same time.

Item, he said that in the cowshed of Alaman of Roaix by Lanta he saw Bernard of Lamothe and his companion, heretics. And he saw there with them the same Alaman, and Joanna, his wife, and Raymond Unaut the younger, and Gualhard of Ségreville, William of Deyme, and many others he does not recall. And the same witness and all the others adored the said heretics there, and heard their preaching.

And this was at the same time.

Item, he said that he saw Bernard of Lamothe and his companion, heretics, in the same witness’s cowshed. And he saw there with them Raymond Ademar, the same witness’s father, whom the same witness escorted there to the said heretics. And at the time the said Raymond Ademar was ill. And the said heretics hereticated the same witness’s said father. But the same witness did not see nor was he present at the said heretication. But the same witness’s father mandated the same witness to give the said heretics 50 Toulousan shillings, and the same witness paid them 30 shillings.

And this was 17 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he said that when / 201r / William of Garnès of Lanta was captured at Toulouse and afterwards was taken to the gallows to be hanged, the same witness, and Raymond Unaut the younger and Alaman of Roaix escorted William of Le Soulier [perhaps missing here: and his conmpanion, heretics] and Raymond of Aigremont. And before the said William was hanged the said heretics hereticated him, in the sight of the same witness, and Raymond of Aigremont. And all the people who were there saw all these things, but did not know they were heretics.

And this was 16 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he said that in the house of Raymond Unaut the younger he saw Bernard of Lamothe, and William of Le Soulier, heretics. And he saw there with them Gualhard of Ségreville, and the said Bernard William, and Comtors. And then the said heretics hereticated there the said Comtors, in the sight of the same witness and all the aforesaid. And the same witness and all the others adored the aforesaid heretics there.

And this was 20 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he said that the same witness escorted Raymond Stephen of Lanta to the cowshed of Pons of Monts. And they saw there Pons of Sogornac and his companion, heretics. And then the said Raymond told the heretics that he would hand over to them Raymond of Lasserre, whom they would make [ms: had made] a heretic, because he was his man. And the same heretics replied to him that they would not do it. And then Raymond Stephen had bad words with them. And the same witness adored them but the said Raymond did not adore them.

And this was 14 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he said that in the wood of Castillon near Auterive he saw Ramond Gros, and Bernard Bonafos, and their companions, heretics. And he saw there with them Na Thieborc, sister of Peter of Montbrun, and Bernard of Orsans, and William of Teyssonières, Peter Othon of Bosc, William of Issus, and some man called Rochas, and S. Roqueville, and Sichard of Neuville, Lord of Castillon, husband of the said Ticborc, and many others he does not recall.

And all of them and the same witness adored the said heretics there, and heard their preaching.

And this w as 15 years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he said that when Na Bruilhes of Beamont, wife of William of Teyssonières, was ill, the same witness and Raymond Unaut the younger went to Toulouse to the house of the Roquevilles. And they got out from there two heretics, whose names he does not know. And the same witness and the said Raymond Unaut escorted the said heretics to Beaupuy, and brought them into the house of Pons of Arlens. But the same Pons was unwilling to see them. And after wards, when the same <witness and Raymond> wanted to escort the said heretics to the said ill woman, the same ill woman sent word to them saying that she did not want to be hereticated but to be monked [nolebat hereticari sed monachari], and so she was monked [ms: et ita fuit monachata = was made a nun]. And the same witness and the said Raymond Unaut escorted the said heretics back to Toulouse and left the m in some street near the Château-Narbonnais. And the same witness and the said Ramond Unaut adored the said heretics.

And this was near the said time.

Item, at Lanta in the cowshed of Peter Forner he saw [wow! Leaves out ‘the same witness’ for once!] Willelma of Deyme and her companion, heretics. And he saw there with them Raymond Unaut the younger, and Galhard of Ségreville, Bernard William of Varennes, and Peter Forner, and Peter Forner, the son of the csaid Peter Forner, and Alamanda, the wife of Peter Forner the elder, and many others he does not recall. And the same witness and all the others adored the said female heretics there, and heard their admonitions.

Ant it was near the said time.

Item, he said he believed the heretics were good men, and truth-tellers, and friends of God, though he knew the Church persecuted them. And it was 25 years ago that he first believed, and it is 13 years ago that he did not believe. And he left off that belief one day when he heard the Lord Bishop Fulk preaching. And he heard the heretics saying that God had not made visible things, that the consecrated host is not the body of Christy, that marriage or baptism are of no value for salvation, and that the bodies of the dead will not rise again. And the same witness believed just as they said.

And he had made his confession to Brother William Arnold, to whom he told all the aforesaid things – and perhaps more things he does not recall – but he acknowledges that that confession is true. Otherwise he did not see heretics, nor adore them, nor give, nor send, nor escort, nor hear their preaching.

He attested these things at Toulouse in front of Brother Bernard of Caux, Inquisitor.

And he abjured heresy, and swore etc., and he bound himself and his property to the obeying of the commands of the inquisitor, and he agreed to the drawing up of a public instrument.

Witnesses: Stephen, Archrpiest of Laurac; Silvester, Chaplain of Verfeil; Nichaus, Chaplain of Lanta; and Peter Aribert, Public Notary, who received the public instrument.

212v / From Drémil [or perhaps Tréville]

… 213r AD 1246, 16 days before the calends of August [17 August], Guilabert of Le Bousquet, knight, sworn in as a witness, said that the same witness saw heretics living openly at Toulouse and Fanjeaux and Montréal and many other places. And the same witness adored them many times, and heard their preaching many times. He also said that there were few men living at that time at Caraman or Lanta or Verfeil who would not be hereticated [when dying / before death], so he heard it said. But the same witness was not present at any heretication that he recalls. But while the heretics were living openly, he adored – genuflecting, saying, ‘Bless’ – so many times that he does not recall.

And this was 40 [ms: xL] years ago or thereabouts.

And he confessed to Brother William Arnold and Brother Stephen, which confession he believes is true.

Item, he said that at the time he believed the heretics were good men, while they were living openly, and it is 60 [Ms: Lx] years since he first believed, and it is 30 [Ms: xxx] years since he did not believe [= stopped believing].

About errors: he did not hear them speak <about them>.

Otherwise he did not see heretics, nor adored them, nor gave nor sent <them anything>, nor escorted, nor heard their preaching.

Item, he said that the mother of the same witness was first a nun and afterwards she made herself a heretic. And he maintained this heretic openly for many years, and gave her all her necessities.

And this was at the aforesaid time.

Item, he said that Arnalda of Lamothe and her companion, heretics, <lived> in the house of the same witness for half a year, and when Bernard of Lamothe came there to the said female heretics, with his companion, heretic, there were there in the said house Willelmam, wife of the same witness, and Gensser and Aicelina, daughters of the same witness, who were seeing the aforesaid female heretics there. And the same witness and the said Guillelma his wife adored the said female heretics there, many times, but their said daughters did not adore them, because they were little children, three years old or thereabouts. And Pons Saquet saw the said female heretics there, who adored the said heretics many times, and Raymond Ademar saw them there, and adored them. And the same witness sometimes gave them things to eat and drink, and sometimes other gifts.

And this was 18 years ago or thereabouts.

And he confessed these and many other things he does not recall to the other aforesaid inquisitors.

And it is 50 [Ms: L] years since he first believed heretics were good men, but he did not believe after his confession about heresy to Brother William Arnold.

Questioned, he said he never maintained male heretics or female heretics at Drémil.

He attested these things at Toulouse in front of Brothers Bernard and John, Inquisitors.

And he abjured heresy, and swore etc, and he bound himself and his property to the obeying of the inquisitors’ commands, and he agreed to the drawing up of a public instrument.

Witnesses: Stephen, Archpriest of Laurac; Peter, Chaplain of St-Sernin; Amiel, Chaplain of St Stephen; and Peter Aribert, Public Notary, who now (?) received the instrument.

222r From Les Cassés …

226v On the year and day as above [19 November 1245] Tolsan Bertran of Les Cassés, sworn in as a witness, said that Willelma of Lagleize, the same witness’s mother, was a heretic for a good three years at Auriac. But the same witness never adored her nor saw her adored.

And this w as 16 years ago and more.

Item, he said the said Willelma, heretic, the same witness’s mother, was arrested and taken to Toulouse, and then converted to the Catholic faith.

And this was 13 years ago.

And after the said conversion the aforesaid Willelma, converted, got her husband back. And she lived with her husband for 8 years and more. And afterwards she lost her husband [‘lost’ translates ‘amisit’; could also mean ‘let him go’]. And now she lives in the house of the same witness, her son, who maintains her at Les Cassés.

Otherwise he did not see heretics, nor believed, nor adored, nor gave, nor sent, nor escorted, nor received, nor heard their preaching.

And he abjured heresy, and swore, etc.

Witnesses: the aforesaid.

247v From Saix, and from Montespieu, and from Viviers in the parish of Saix

/ 248v / Item, on the aforesaid year and day as above [2 March 1245], Peter Marsal, sworn in as a witness, said nothing.

Item, on the aforesaid year and day as above, Peter Roscassas, sworn in as a witness, said nothing.

Item, on the aforesaid year and day, Peter of Las Barthes, sworn in as a witness, said the same. He said, however, that Galharda Bruna of Castres asked the same witness, to give her half a quarter of corn for the sake of charity to two poor women, which he did. And afterwards he heard it said that these two women were Waldensians. …

From Viviers near La Bruguère …

/ 249r / On the aforesaid year and day [2 March 1245], Raymond Biat, sworn as a witness, said that he never saw heretics, apart from captured ones.

Nor did he believe, nor adore, nor give nor send them anything, nor did he hear their preaching.

He said, however, that he was a messenger, together with Peter Martin of Viviers. And he saw in his house [Peter’s] sometimes four Waldensians, sometimes three, sometimes two. And they ate and drank in the said house. However, he did not hear them preaching.

And this was eleven years ago or thereabouts.

He also said that on the urging of Peter Martin, his lord, he gave a quarter of corn every year for three years to the said Waldensians.

Asked if he believed they were good men, he replied that at the time he did believe they were good men.

And this was at the same time.

He confessed the aforesaid things to Brother William Arnold at Toulouse.

And he abjured heresy, and took an oath, etc.

Witnesses: the aforesaid.

[One short deposition, then]

On the aforesaid year and day [2 March 1245], John Cochafieu, sworn in as a witness, said that he saw Gausbert of Las Crozes and his companion, that is, the Waldensians, in the same witness’s house. And the said Waldensians were there for two days, and they ate and slept in the same witness’s house.

And he heard them saying that no-one ought to take an oath, justly or unjustly.

He also said that he gave to the Waldensians a shirt and a basket of grapes.

And this was six years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he saw the Waldensians in a certain hut in the wood of St-Affrique. And he saw there with the aforesaid Waldensians Peter Martin of Viviers, who had brought the same witness there. And then the same witness and the aforesaid Peter Martin heard the preaching of the said Waldensians.

And this was six years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he saw the aforesaid Waldensians in the same wood. And he saw there with them the said Peter Martin. And he <and> the said Peter Martin heard the preaching <of the said Waldensians>.

He believed the aforesaid Waldensians were good men, and had a good faith, and were friends of God, and one could be saved through them. However, at the time he did not know that the Church persecuted them.

He confessed the aforesaid things to Brother William Arnold, Inquisitor, at Toulouse. And thereafter he did not see the Waldensians. And it is seven years since he first believed the Waldensians were good; but he did not believe after he confessed to Brother William Arnold, Inquisitor.

And he abjured heresy, and took an oath, etc.

Witnesses: the aforesaid.

Item, on the aforesaid year and day, Sicharda, the wife of John Cochafieu, sworn in as a witness, said that she never saw heretics, nor believed, nor adored, nor gave nor sent anything, nor heard their preaching.

She said, however, that she saw Gausbert of Las Crozes and his companion, Waldensians, in the house the same witness and her husband. And the said Waldensians were there for two nights, and they ate and slept there. However, she did not hear them talking <or> preaching.

And this was six years ago or thereabouts.

Item, she said that she often gave alms to the Waldensians, to William of Na Ugua, a Waldensian, and to other Waldensians, for the love of God. And she believed the Waldensians were good men, and truth-tellers. And because of this, that she heard them saying nothing but good, she believed one could be saved in their faith. She confessed the aforesaid things to Brother William Arnold, the Inquisitor, at Toulouse. And thereafter she did not see the Waldensians. Nor did she ever hear them preaching about the sacrament, nor about doing justice.

And it is six years ago since she first believed the Waldensians were good men. But she did not believe <this> after she confessed to Brother William Arnold, Inquisitor.

And she abjured heresy, and took an oath, etc.

Witnesses: the aforesaid.

Item, on the aforesaid year and day, Raymond Martin, sworn in as a witness, said that he never saw heretics except as captives or in public. Nor did he believe, nor adore, nor give or send anything, nor did he hear their preaching.

He said, however, that he saw William Montaner, Waldensian, in the same witness’s house. And the said Waldensian was there for a night. And he ate and slept in the same witness’s house.

And this was eight years ago or thereabouts.

Item, he said that the same witness and the same witness’s brother Peter Martin went to Castres. And Gaillarda Martina then handed over - to the same witness and to the same witness’s brother Peter Martin - Arnalda and Good Lady, Waldensians. / 249v / And while the same witness and his brother were extricating the said Waldensian from Castres, the said Waldensians were captured - the same witness and his brother fled. One of them was converted and the other burnt.

And this was six years ago or thereabouts.

He believed that the aforesaid Waldensians were good men, and had a good faith, and that one could be saved through them, though he knew that the Church persecuted them.

And he heard them saying that one ought not to take an oath, justly or unjustly.

About justice: he did not hear them speaking.

He confessed the aforesaid things to Brother William Arnold and his companion, Inquisitors, at Toulouse.

And it is nine years since he first believed that the Waldensians were good men, but six years since he did not believe <this>.

And he abjured heresy, and took an oath, etc.

Witnesses: the aforesaid.

[Fifteen brief negative depositions, all on the same date, then: ]

Item, on the aforesaid year and day, Raymond Stephen, sworn in as a witness, said the same [nothing].

He said, however, that he did hear from Rama, his mother, that she had received the Waldensians.